Proposition 8
On Tuesday, California voters voted on several propositions to go along with the national election. Of these propositions, I’d like to talk about proposition 8.
What is proposition 8? If you haven’t already heard, it’s supposed to restore true family values and outlaw gay marriage in California. This would bring back the supposed traditional meaning of the word marriage, which is the union between a man and a woman in every religion I can think of.
Basically, California took a big step backwards when it comes to equal rights.
The problem for me is the fact that governments can define what is marriage. This should be impossible. I thought marriage was conducted by religions, and thus should be out of bounds for the government. The government should only define civil unions, which is much different from marriage. Religions can still choose who to marry, but everyone should enjoy the same tax benefits etc. as others. It’s only logical.
And let’s not get into any crap about keeping marriage sacred. Heterosexual couples have already screwed that up by divorcing 50% of the time here in the United States. How frikkin’ sacred is that then? People are already marrying up then giving up a few years later just to get back with someone else who they give up years later. Family values my @$$. Think about all of the children broken up by divorced families. It’s a nightmare.
Gay civil union would not impede on anyone else’s marriage rights nor would it impact anyone else’s lives at all. As far as we all are concerned, some gay couples are practically married besides the legal benefits, and they deserve those benefits as much as anyone else.
“Oh no, but they are sinning by wanting to be gay.” No one chooses to be gay, period. I couldn’t choose to be gay. It’s impossible. Others who are straight couldn’t choose to be gay. It doesn’t work. No one chooses to defy nature ok? If you still believe people choose to be gay, you’re brainwashed. I like women. I will never stop liking women. No matter how hard I try I will never be able to change that. That’s simply how my body reacts. With gay people it’s the same deal. They happen to like the same sex, and it’s not by choice. Children don’t choose to be gay, that’s simply not something they are thinking about doing actively. Just like you didn’t actively choose to like whichever gender you happen to like.
I’m not even going to mention that there are many, many species that have homosexual relations. It just… happens. Just like cancer just happens, and I’m not going to incriminate people just because they have cancer.
And don’t give me crap about a slippery slope, either. There is no slippery slope. Two consenting adults want a civil union, there’s no slippage there. People aren’t going to win arguments to marry siblings, animals, or inanimate objects. There’s simply no legal basis for that, and those things are stupid anyway.
Again, if your religion doesn’t support gay marriage, fine. I have no qualms with that. But the legal system should not be defining marriage anyway; it should only allow for civil unions. I’m pretty sure that’s something everyone can live with.
Here’s a story about some rights groups challenging the ban:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27557521/
Got a differing opinion, or do you agree? Let me know in a comment below.
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The Frugal Libertarian Said,
November 9, 2008 @ 12:48 am
You almost sound like a libertarian. I agree with you. You hit the nail on the head about the state’s role in marriage. They should write it down. That is it. My husband and I say were married so some government official writes it down for record keeping.
The arguements against gay marriage are so thin. I am glad you touched on the slippery slope issue. “Well then we will have to let people marry dogs!” Fine. When you can get a dog to give their consent and sign on the dotted line you can marry a dog. Good luck with that.
And as far as traditional family values, you are right, the sanctity of marriage is a joke in our country. And how will gay marriage make it any worse? I guess I could wake up tomorrow and think, “oh, if I knew I could marry a woman I wouldn’t have married my husband. I want a divorce.” I doubt it since like those that are born gay, I was born straight.
Alberto Said,
November 9, 2008 @ 9:53 pm
You know, I wonder why more people AREN’T Libertarians. I mean, how many people can honestly say yes if I were to ask, “Would you want the government to control your life?”.
I appreciate the comment, because you’re right. Write it down, and leave it be. Well said.
The Frugal Libertarian Said,
November 10, 2008 @ 2:18 am
The reason more people are not libertarian is that they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want a government big enough to provide a social safety net, protect them from harm (real or imagined), provide education, and fix social ills. What they do not understand is that a government bid enough to do these things will inevitably be big enough to “control your life”.
True power lies with the individual. The government has no power of their own, so it must seize power from individuals. It can not function without destroying the sovereignty of individuals. We could limit this destruction by governing from the bottom up and by governing within the confines of a contractual limitation (a constitution) on how much sovereignty will be removed from the individual, but we abandoned that model of governing long ago.
This is where I get frustrated with my liberal friends. We want the same things; peace, prosperity, and equality, only I see government as the biggest impediment to achieving these goals. My liberal friends will fret over the governments’ violation of someone’s First Amendment rights or violation of any of the other first ten amendments, but I get blank stares when I try to explain that the only reason the government has the money or the power to infringe upon those rights is because you have ignored their blatant disregard for the entire limits of the Constitution.
You can not have it both ways.
Gayza Said,
November 10, 2008 @ 8:25 am
While your post is amazingly off topic, this issue hit’s a soft spot in American social beliefs, because as much as people pretend we’re not, this country as a whole is generally Christian. So in the end it’s mob rules, while I agree in giving legal rights to same sex couples (hell I know of some VERY conservative people who agree on exactly that). I can understand while it passed, I don’t even think it’s the slippery slope argument, it’s just people fear what they don’t understand and try to hide it (even if gay culture has become amazingly prevalent in American society today, though I think that’s a bit of it being forced down the throat situation). In the end it’s democracy so 51% of people will impede on the rights of 49% of people.
Let's Talk Said,
November 10, 2008 @ 11:20 pm
I realize that it’s hard for me to please myself, so I don’t try to please others. I just think that whatever makes a person happy in this world that does not involve killing, incest, or rape should be OK with everyone.
If two people of the same sex wish to be together, then leave them along and let them enjoy the short time we all have here on this earth.
Isn’t it hard enough just to get through a day without seeing or hearing about the short comings that we all endure as a people.
Alberto Said,
November 11, 2008 @ 3:05 am
All valid points that I happen to agree with : )
Real Politics Said,
November 12, 2008 @ 10:25 pm
Here is your problem. You do not know or see the entire picture. First of all these Sodomites have the right to do what ever they want under the law and I believe they should have that right. What the problem is though that these people want to make it so I cannot say anything against them or it be considered a hate crime. That is what was in Prop 8 if you did your research. Do you think people should be put in prison for expressing their beliefs. No I do not. Also I is not natural for any man or woman to be together and God did not intend it this way.
If you study history the fall of Rome which America very much mimics was not from some great or mighty empire it was from within. They starting allowing Sodomy and killings were put on stage. Well we allow Sodomy and if you look at video games you sure can see where America is headed. God will not allow this natino to exists if people like you keep thinking that it should just be allowed it is their right. Your wrong its not right plain and simple.
Alberto Said,
November 13, 2008 @ 2:03 am
Whatever your God believes in YOUR religion is not the concern of others who do not share the same religious beliefs. So impose YOUR religion on the people who practice YOUR religion and let everyone else abide by man’s laws and not state-imposed God laws.
You blindly follow your faith failing to realize that God created ALL men and women. Why would God create men and women that do not share the same rights as us?
The whole argument with video games is laughable at best.
Plain and simply, stop imposing your religious beliefs on everyone.
Let's Talk Said,
November 14, 2008 @ 7:24 am
I hope you do not mind my comment Alberto. I am a Christian and yes, my faith is strong. I had a site called Let’s Talk God and I think I might start it up at some point when time permits.
I just wanted to say this, Does anyone who claims to be a Christian remember the conversation between God and Job?
No man without the permission of God speaks for God. By making such comments that we Christian know what is right or wrong is foolish. If we have the faith and Belief in God and Christianity, then let’s not go around persecuting others for what they believe. Let’s stop and allow God to handle that department, unless he tells us otherwise.
The Bible was written by many men during their own generation to help the people of that time to get through what was going on at that time.
We Christians must learn to keep our faith and our mouths within the Church and with one another. Let’s stop trying to tell others what is right and how to live.
We should all stand by the fact that we should try as hard as we can to love and care for one another and that is it. Life is too short for any man or woman on this earth, trying to tell others how to live.
For God’s sake, let others enjoy their life on this earth with whoever makes them happy and let God sort out what God sorts out. I am sure God does not need any man to do the sorting, unless you know something I do not.
Alberto Said,
November 14, 2008 @ 2:24 pm
Of course I don’t your comment! I too am a Christian and although my faith does not seem as strong as many others, I do admire those who really do stick to the values of the church.
I absolutely agree that you cannot tell others how they should live. The Bible is for you, and the church is for you. The Bible tells those who choose to follow it how to live your life. And while I see no problem with telling others about God, using the state to further your religious agenda is the wrong way to go.
Thanks much for the comment!